Dingo wrote: I'm not sure why a sign-up is required to read a hardware support forum?

Okay, you're not sure why. Fair enough. Saying "you're not sure" is better than jumping to some incorect conclusion and assuming there's some sinister/cynical motive.

you have alienated me as a direct result of the points mention by me and others in this thread.

You've been given the facts but stil insist that there's only one explanation.

If Draytek UK are being above board why don't they provide a link to the full users manual for the Vigor120?

In the UK? For the later non-UK model which has a different purpose/spec? Seriously? The UK Vigor120 and user guide pre-dates any other version and as well as being deliberately simple in function, has deliberately simple documenation.

On the plus side I agree the crippled UK/IE v120/v130's are unique as far as modems go

It's not 'crippled' - it never had the features in the first place. The Vigor 120 was introduced for the UK market with the UK spec. for a specific purpose before any other model. The reason it's been so successful UK is specifically because of it's touchless spec.

it may be acceptable to people that have limited knowledge or don't need a feature rich device.

You think Vigor 120 users have limited knowledge? You are wrong. They just want a simple bridge; that's why it's a successful product. If people want a router, there were lots of other options/vendors.

If I were a sceptic

You mean a cynic? You are insisting that there must be some sinister motive even though it has been explained clearly. Is that not the definition of a sceptic (or "cynic") ?

I could only think of one primary motivator for this situation

You mean one OTHER. You've been given the actual one.

And here's a little takeaway for your marketing people...

My marketing people?

You guys just failed on the latter and significantly damaged your chances of the former.

Well, it was a no-win situation wasn't it? If DrayTek had said "oh, yes, dammit, you're so shrewd,....we're really bad, you got us...this was a deliberate cynical ploy to increase sales and mislead customers" then you still wouldn't have been satisifed... and you don't even believe that.

admin wrote:

If I were a sceptic

You mean a cynic? You are insisting that there must be some sinister motive even though it has been explained clearly. Is that not the definition of a sceptic (or "cynic") ?

No, I meant exactly what I said! See bold below.

skep•tic or scep•tic (?sk?p t?k)

n.
1. a person who questions the validity, authenticity, or truth of something purporting to be factual, esp. religion or religious tenets.
2. a person who maintains a doubting attitude, as toward values, plans, or the character of others.
3. (cap.)
a. a member of a philosophical school of ancient Greece which maintained that real knowledge of things is impossible.
b. any later thinker who doubts or questions the possibility of real knowledge of any kind.

I guess the engineering team added the advanced features to the non-crippled versions of the v120/130 because they were bored one Friday afternoon and thought they would have a laugh. Alternatively they may have included those enhancements because they thought they would make the device more useful. The latter seems more plausible to me and others in this thread. Strangely the need for increased functionality seems to be something you don't appreciate, despite the FACT users are raising objections about their absence!

There are two simple solutions;
1: Supply units with a uniform software deployment that includes access to the full features the device is capable of. They could even add a software button to toggle between basic and advanced modes, so basic users only get the desired options that Draytek gives them by default, and anyone that needs the extra functionality can go to advanced mode.

2: Keep the crippled version as it is, (because Draytek seem to think general users can't be trusted to configure their own device) and provide users with an alternate download to flash the device with the full featured firmware.

It's actually very simple to solve the issue it's 2016 not 1996 after all.

admin wrote:

And here's a little takeaway for your marketing people...

My marketing people?

Rather pedantic but to be expected given your liberal use of fallacies and poor reasoning. You seem to assume you are the centre of the discussion by your selection of "My marketing..." when the correct assumption would be more accurately expressed as "the marketing...". We are using the Draytek forum...rational minds would apply that as part of the general context while reading and understanding what's being said. You may not be a direct employee of Draytek, but as a moderator of their forum you are a public facing representative by proxy, as to perform that role/duty someone within the organisation elected you to conduct forum business on their behalf.

What the folk at Draytek choose to do or not do with customer feedback on their forum etc. is entirely their business.

Good day.

Well, whilst I am not your conduit, DrayTek do indeed monitor this forum and may see the discussion.

I bought the 120 and the 130 as I want a modem, not a router - I already have a 2925.... why would I want to pay for additional features I don't require?

It seems me that Draytek offer the correct products and you are just as bit miffed as you can't buy a non-UK spec'd product in the UK to then use it for a job which isn't best designed for (when attached to UK designed telecommunications networks).

I signed up to this forum specifically to research this very issue (post sale)! I'm not sure why a sign-up is required to read a hardware support forum? Hiding this support information away from people searching the internet is seriously messed up.

Rubbish, ALL forums require you to sign for an account, otherwise they would be full of spam within seconds.

The Draytek forum is in no way hidden , the link is in plain sight on the Draytek website.

If Draytek UK are being above board why don't they provide a link to the full users manual for the Vigor120? UK users get downloads for the firmware and QS guide only that's not theory it's FACT!

Obviously! Why would Draytek provide links to manuals and firmware that do not pertain to the UK devices? Download those manuals and the firmware for the continental models all you like, they will do nothing for you, the UK models , as has been stated to you many times are modems and not routers. The hardware is different.

It's not clear that a V120-K / 4719853558311 Vigor 120 (UK/IE) is not the same thing as a V120 period, same for the v130, and in the UK there could be grounds for a mis-selling case.

Again, you are totally wrong , it is very clear what these models are . All the product information on both models in the UK makes it perfectly clear that they are dedicated modems.

Google either model and you will see 10+ pages of results and ALL the UK retailers make it 100% plain what they are selling and what the purpose of the product is.

and it may be acceptable to people that have limited knowledge or don't need a feature rich device...........

Arrogant rubbish, the people buying these dedicated modems are doing so because that is what they need and want , a dedicated modem . The V120 /130 are used by professional network engineers as well as home users that run cable type routers.

.I'm the guy who supports my friends, family and businesses for IT related stuff

Really ? These people may not like being mislead .

What is abundantly clear is that you are the one that has limited knowledge and fails to understand or want to listen to the answer given.

Fact , the V120 and V130 UK models are modems not routers, as a product they were introduced to the UK market for a specific purpose and that was PRIOR to the basic router devices which are sold abroad.

AdrianH54 wrote:

reetp wrote: I'm the guy who supports my friends, family and businesses for IT related stuff

Really ? These people may not like being mislead .

What is abundantly clear is that you are the one that has limited knowledge and fails to understand or want to listen to the answer given.

I think is the source problem. The OP has been a bonehead, bought the wrong kit on based on his inability to read technical specs for UK products and is now trying to blame someone else.